MINUTES
HORSE
HILL NATURE PRESERVE (HHNP)
04/03/06
DRAFT
Members Present:
Tim Tenhave, Chair HHNP Ad Hoc, Master Plan Robyn Goinsalvos, Horseback Riding, Abutter
Andy Powell, HHNP Ad Hoc, Conservation Harry Watt, Mountain Biking
John Hall, Watanic Bowmen’s Club Nelson Disco, Planning Board
Mike Ruggiero, HHNP Ad Hoc, MYA Chris Christensen, HHNP Ad Hoc
Connie Kreider, HHNP Ad Hoc, Heritage Debra Huffman, HHNP Ad Hoc, Master Plan
Tom Vaillancourt, Mountain Biking Roger Blais, Right Riders (ATV)
Denise O’Dwyer, HHNP Ad Hoc Bob L’Heureux, Hunting
Helynne Wenz, HHNP Ad Hoc Bette Philo, Abutter
Ruth Roulx, HHNP Ad Hoc, P&R, Heritage Comm. Karen Mattor, HHNP Ad Hoc
Terry Bernhardt, MYA Glen Philo, Abutter
Rick DiOrio, Sno-Buds Linda Reid, Abutter
Shannon Barnes, HHNP Ad Hoc
Members Excused:
Ron Simard, Watanic Bowmen’s Club
Others Present:
Kerrie Diers, NRPC Assistant Director
Karen Baker, NRPC Administrative Assistant
Meeting Opened
The meeting was
called to order by Tim Tenhave at 7:03 PM.
Announcements:
Tim Tenhave
welcomed the group and introduced himself to the public that was there for the
meeting. He let everyone know that all
day voting was the following week on April 11th.
Tim asked Debra Huffman for a brief snapshot of the site walk that took place on Sunday, April 2nd at the HHNP site. She filled Tim in on approximately how many people were there, conditions, and a few brief comments (summary of walk to be available later). Tim proceeded by going over the agenda, asking the group to please have respect when addressing the public present and vice versa from the public to the members. He went over the ground rules, what would not be discussed (Athletic Fields Costs/other areas for Fields, other than on the HHNP site) that the group will accommodate all uses put in the Master Plan done in 2003. He explained that the whole idea was to come to a consensus and to gear questions and comments to objective criteria.
Public or Press
Comment on Agenda
There were no comments/questions from the public.
Introductions
Tim introduced Kerrie Diers who explained to the members and
public present why NRPC was here and what we are doing, process and mapping
exercises done in the past, and what we wanted to accomplish tonight. She went on to explain that tonight’s
exercise was Part 2 of the 4th mapping exercise, because the group
needed more time to address the proposed location of an Athletic Complex. The charge for the members tonight was to
discuss the location of the athletic complex and come up with a blue print or
site plan for the entire site. Kerrie
reviewed a “Site Suitability Analysis” map produced by
Deb asked for a rough scale of 1000 ft using the map shown on the projector screen.
Mike Ruggiero spoke up next and introduced Steve Keach of Keach-Nordstrom Associates (KNA), to share with the group the Athletic Complex proposal that he presented to the members of the HHNP at the January 16th meeting. Steve gave a brief overview of what the MYA’s needs were and the process KNA went through before presenting their proposal. He went on to explain how KNA’s proposal measured up and that it met the objective criteria agreed upon by the HHNP members, which was established after his presentation at January 16th meeting. Listed below are some points from Steve’s presentation:
Section
8 of the Town’s Master Plan identified 50 acres for use for fields. KNA was able to come up with a proposal using
only 24 acres.
MYA’s
unmet needs were for a full size baseball diamond (size requirement of 400 ft
straight out and 350 ft foul lines) and two multi-use fields (standard high
school size soccer fields).
Parcel
lacked decent vehicular access points (nothing real appropriate) therefore,
focused on
Parking
for 164 spaces which MYA did not envision needing that much.
Limited
buildings required (one 30x20 shelter/equipment bldg.)
Accessible
parking with 8% max slope with a width of 22 ft (would be improvement of road).
Total
of 2,000 sq ft impact for culvert modification.
Made
road 24 ft to accommodate cars passing at same time with pedestrian traffic.
Area
is relatively flat for construction based on maps produced by NRPC (orange
areas).
800
to 1,000 sq ft impact for crossing culvert (about size of courtroom) with 30 to
40 ft pipes.
Some
critical wildlife habitat areas east and southeast.
Ability
for full buildout on the 24 acres (meets objective criteria) and there are
opportunities for adjustments.
Linda
Reid asked for a size comparison to Reeds Ferry. It was unknown to Steve how big Reeds Ferry
was, but he compared it to the fields near the Budweiser Plant.
Bob
L’Heureux questioned if there was any proposal to utilize the extra 26 acres
not used in the original 50 acres to be used for fields. Steve said that would be up to the committee.
Steve
spoke of how his proposal would be complimentary to other uses (creates a trail
head for all uses proposed) and that you could not pick a better location when
it comes to unfragmented (preserves integrity) and referred to the Lastowka
wells in the area not being impacted.
Linda
Reid asked about summer use and Terry Bernhardt respond MYA programs run with
the school year and that fields would be open to the public in the summer with
oversight by parks and recreation. Linda
stated that in regards fields being built that she had spoke with High School
kids and they said if you play high school baseball, you play at the high
school.
Babe
Ruth league uses the 90ft diamond for play.
Mike
explained that Town owned fields are administered by Parks and Recreation and
with School owned fields, MYA has second dibs for use of the fields (school
comes first). He also spoke of Corporate
owned fields which could be used by Town or MYA, usually with a lease or a
handshake.
Steve
Keach felt that there would be minimum lighting at fields (at access points),
because there are not many night games.
Karen
Mattor asked Steve Keach if he was concerned with flooding in the bottom half
of the lower field. He responded that
there would be a 50 to 75 ft finished grade elevation by cutting the northwest corner
and filling the southeast corner to even it out and that best management
practices would be used when constructing.
Andy said that the markers identifying wetlands on the tree branches
were up to date.
Listed below were questions, comments, and concerns from the public present:
A
member of the public, Greg Kennedy of
Ernest
Pouliot, 204
John
Lastowka,
Avery
Finver with the MYA spoke up saying that there are not many parks in
An
individual from the public asked for an explanation on the overlay of purple on
the maps. Tim gave a brief explanation
and informed her that the information was available on the NH Fish and Game
website.
Greg
Kennedy questioned the buffers along the stone wall. Steve Keach informed him that it was
different in different areas and that it would be thinner in the area of the
access road. He added that the entirety
of the Athletic Complex abuts only 4 non town owned properties.
Robin Goinsalvos and some committee members got together and created a Power Point presentation in response to Steve Keach’s letter. There were roughly 27 slides and Robyn went over each one and answered any questions from the members present and the public. Below are some of the questions, comments, concerns, and answers brought forth during her presentation:
In
response to Robyn’s slide depicting that 1,000 kids on the fields at once, Mike
Ruggiero responded saying that there would never be 1,000 at a field at one
time and that total would be over the course of a day.
Bob
L’Heureux said that the other 25 acres could be used for additional parking as
needed.
In
response to Robyn’s concern regarding whether 164 spaces would fit, an
individual from the public commented on schedules for field games saying that
there would be 60 families and 60 cars at any given time and that you would be
looking at 122 cars and that most programs where Monday through Saturday.
In
response to Robyn’s information regarding the amount of material to be blasted
and truck movements, Steve Keach responded that he would be doing a grading
design, not bringing material in. Some
bedrock would be moved and that materials would be moved from one end of the
property to the other. He added that
select materials would have to be brought in (sand and gravel) and that he felt
she got some misinformation.
Mike
Ruggiero responded in regards to the amount of water needed for the fields
saying they only require 2 inches of water per week per field.
In
response to Robyn’s slide regarding noise from kids, Avery Finver felt that
noise from kids would be just as disruptive as hunting and dangerous.
Janet
Cormier felt that the wildlife at Wasserman (smaller area) is affected.
Bob
L’Heureux said it was a scientific fact that noise does not effect or disturb
wildlife. Noises (non-specific) they are
used to.
An
individual from the public commented on the incompatibility with ballfields,
hunting, and horses suggesting they use the rest of the parcel when ballgames
are going on. Sumner Webster spoke up
saying that horses are very skittish by nature and unstable when noises are
around.
In
response to the question of how much aluminum bat usage there would be Terry
Bernhardt replied that the MYA schedule runs from April to July. Avery Finver said there is 1 game per week
and 4 games on Saturday (they do not play on Sunday). Sumner Webster said that is only what the MYA
schedule is.
Jim
Downing from Friends of Merrimack Baseball spoke of the major scheduling
problem there was in town and of the interest in another field. He hoped his organization could have use of
the field also, not just the MYA. He
added that their schedule runs from mid June to the end of July overlapping
with the Senior Babe Ruth and with over 30 League with 11 home games.
Bette
Philo commented on the above saying it sounded like there would be a lot more
kids than originally said would be on parcel due to not just MYA scheduling
games there.
Robyn concluded her presentation and the members and public commented further. Below are more of the comments, questions, answers and concerns:
Glen
Philo asked that 300 and 600 feet from northern edge of beaver pond be shown on
the map. Bette Philo spoke up saying
that the beaver pond was larger than what was shown on the map and that there
were 4 dams in the pond all within 40 feet of each other. She added that each piece of land is
important, but felt that the ballfield proposal was the most detrimental.
Newton
Coryell reminded the group that the sport complex was unanimously voted on by
the BOS for the site in the Master Plan and that they were way off base if they
were arguing whether ballfields should go there. Another member of the group reminded everyone
that it was part of their charge for the evening to find a place on the parcel
for ballfields and that regardless, ballfields would be there.
Bob
L’Heureux felt that there should be no trailers (snowmobile) allowed. He felt they should be prohibited at times
when games are played. Concession trailers
or non-profit would be okay but nothing hauling equipment and then leaving it
there all day. He asked for
consideration and further discussion on this.
Robyn
sent information on the site and the proposed athletic complex to the EPA and
the Army Corp of Engineers to look at.
She did not feel that there was enough information to just tear the area
down.
Linda
Reid felt members were very emotional on certain issues and questioned how to
report to the BOS with a percentage approving and disapproving. She did not feel that people were going to
agree to agree and wanted to know how to present this to the BOS. Shannon Barnes suggested that if they came to
a consensus, an addendum to the document or minority report could be done as an
alternative. Bob L’Heureux spoke up
reminding the group that he asked a long time ago if a minority report would be
accepted so as to not hold the process up.
Andy
Powell wanted to know how you determine a minority or majority. He added that personally he would not have
voted for ballfields knowing what he knows now and felt it was a time to
change. Janet Cormier and Mike Ruggiero
felt it was too late to change the rules now.
Robyn said the Master Plan was outdated when these decisions were made.
Bob
L’Heureux spoke saying that before the fields can be constructed, there is a
whole application process that will be done.
If they find the fields are not compatible from the information from
EPA, etc., it will be squashed.
Tim
Tenhave let the group know that they needed to do something, come up with a
plan.
A motion was made by Shannon Barnes and seconded by Rick DiOrio:
Per the charge of the
BOS to locate an area for an Athletic Complex on HHNP, the Consensus Building
Group recommends that the best location for an athletic complex is the 24 acres
depicted on the plans submitted by Keach Nordstrom Associates.
Votes using the scale of agreement were as follows:
4 votes for #8 6 votes for #3
1 vote for #6 3 votes for #2
4 votes for #5 5 votes for #1
*Harold Watson’s vote came in writing from Tim Tenhave
Connie Kreider made a motion that more data be collected before moving forward on the fields and Shannon Barnes seconded that motion.
Steve Keach gave an explanation to the group of what happens by matter of course in regards to the development of a ballfield on HHNP:
Would
need a DES wetlands permit for wetlands;
Alterations
of land would require NHDES site specific permit (would need this before moving
forward);
Address
habitat to limited extent, and
Determination
of wildlife corridor.
There were several concerns voiced by a number of members regarding the impact on wildlife habitat in the area of where the ballfields are proposed to be built, what should be done, and information that should be provided before members could effectively make definitive decisions.
Steve Keach spoke up saying that in order to have a wildlife biologist come in and do a wildlife habitat survey, you have to have a proposal developed so they can understand what is going to happen before they can go out and tell you what is going to happen.
Based on the discussion, Connie and Shannon then withdrew their motion to accept one brought forth by Andy Powell. A motion was made by Andy Powell to read as follows:
The committee
recommends that before an Athletic Complex is constructed on the HHNP site, a
wildlife habitat impact study needs to be conducted on the 24 acres based upon
the plan submitted by Keach Nordstrom Associates.
The motion was seconded by Newton Coryell. Voting based on the scale of agreement was as follows:
1 vote for #8 2
votes for #2 17 votes for #1
In response to Bette Philo’s comment that an environmental impact study be done, Andy Powell responded that one was done when the property was bought. It was also said by a member that if a wildlife habitat impact study is done, a wetland delineation would follow. Steve Keach informed the group that any wetland scientist would not stamp a plan on a report done 7 years ago, and if it they did, DES would not approve it.
A motion to recess was made by Mike Ruggiero and seconded by Andy Powell and then withdrawn in order to allow the public any final comments, questions or concerns.
Greg Kennedy felt
he was very unlucky due to the longest side of his property would be where the
access road would be located. He let the
group know that he has owned the 4 ½ acre property for 9 years and had cleared
the area to expose the rock wall and does not have a vote in the whole matter
because he is not a
Avery Finver said
they have not got enough fields in
Roland Roberge
had concerns with cars and trash. He
asked if a light could be put up there and commented on how fast the cars speed
on
Mike Ruggiero had two written statements for the record which would be handed out at the next meeting.
Motion to adjourn was made by Shannon Barnes and seconded by Janet Cormier.
Meeting adjourned at 11:18 pm.
Next meeting will be
held on April 17th, 2006 in the
KD/kmb
#235D-31